6: Rocking It As a Solo Agent with Toni Mikel

Kim Borcharding and Rebecca Green interview Toni Mikel, a real estate broker in Portland, Oregon. Toni was Kim's mentor when she first started in real estate, and they discuss the importance of having a mentor and finding what works for you in the industry. They also talk about Toni's background in real estate, her experience as a 30 under 30 recipient, and the value of building relationships in the business. Toni emphasizes the importance of doing what's best for the client and finding efficiency in your business. The conversation touches on topics such as the importance of understanding ROI, the value of working with the right clients, the benefits of owning a brokerage, and the challenges of training and mentoring new agents. They also discuss the current market conditions and the role of NAR in the industry. Toni shares her philosophy of staying focused on her clients and providing exceptional service, rather than relying on online presence or marketing tactics.

Takeaways

• Having a mentor in real estate can be invaluable in guiding your career and helping you succeed.
• There are many different paths to success in real estate, and what works for one person may not work for another.
• Doing what's best for the client should always be the top priority in real estate.
• Building relationships and networking with other professionals in the industry can lead to opportunities and growth.
• Finding efficiency in your business can help you maximize your time and focus on what truly matters. Understanding the ROI on every hour spent is crucial in the real estate industry.
• Working with the right clients who value realtors is more important than chasing every deal.
• Owning a brokerage can provide more control and efficiency in the business.
• Training and mentoring new agents is essential, but it's important to find the right balance and focus on personal strengths.
• Market conditions may fluctuate, but adapting and providing exceptional service to clients remains key.
• NAR plays a vital role in maintaining ethical standards in the industry.
• Building strong relationships with clients and being a trusted advisor is more valuable than online presence or marketing tactics.

Chapters

• 0:00 Introduction and Importance of Mentorship
• 3:21 Finding What Works in Real Estate
• 7:35 Putting the Client First
• 11:18 Building Relationships and Networking
• 23:14 Maximizing Efficiency in Your Business
• 25:37 Understanding ROI and the Value of Time
• 26:05 Working with the Right Clients
• 32:14 The Benefits of Owning a Brokerage
• 37:21 Training and Mentoring New Agents
• 42:31 Adapting to Market Conditions
• 43:23 The Role of NAR in the Industry
• 44:49 Building Strong Client Relationships

Transcript

Rebecca Green (00:00.28)
Hi there. Welcome to our podcast, How to Real Estate Today. I'm Kim Borcherding with my co -host here, Rebecca Green. And today we are doing our first interview and I was really excited to invite this guest. So Toni Mikel is a real estate broker here in the Portland, Oregon area. And actually Toni Mikel was my mentor many years ago and I find Toni so fascinating and

smart and just really interesting for so many reasons. And also, I am forever grateful for Toni for investing her time and mentorship with me and really wanted to, and actually Rebecca doesn't know her at all. So really want to this opportunity to have Toni as our first guest because if it wasn't for her, I don't know where my career may have gone. So welcome Toni. Thank you for joining us.

Of course. Happy to be. So again, we're going to talk a lot with Toni today. But again, like I said, I, when I decided to get into real estate back in, I think it was 2011, I was going to leave a pretty good job. had a successful career in software sales and had this aha moment that I was going to go into real estate. And you know, you don't know what you don't know, but I did know that I should have a mentor or somebody who I can help, you

guide me in this new career. So part of that process is I literally cold called like, I don't know, six, eight different real estate agents in the Portland area. None of them I knew. I didn't know any real estate agents in Portland. I heard Toni's name. My husband was a mortgage broker, a colleague of his, new Toni. I had heard good things about Toni. So Toni was one of the agents that I called.

to, you know, I mean, as real estate agent, this very common cut, can I pick your brain? You know, can I have coffee? I mean, Rebecca, how many times has somebody asked you, can I pick your brain about real estate? Like all the time, all the time. So Toni was one of those people in my pick your brain along with other, you know, handful of other really great agents. But Toni really stood out to me as somebody very unique. And I'm actually not going to name the other agents because they're good agents. They're good agents. But something about Toni was really special.

Rebecca Green (02:26.378)
And for me, I felt a connection. I don't know if Toni did, but I did. Nope, nope. I walked away from that meeting. was like, my God. She was like, unlike any other agent I met with, you know, in this like month process. And she was smart. She was driven. She also had such a big heart. And for me, I have a big heart and I'm really connected to people who,

feel big and Toni is one of those people and how she looked at the business was so interesting. So honestly, I walked away from that meeting feeling so excited and inspired. And then I called Toni a couple days later, I said, Hey, would you like, I loved our meeting. Would you consider mentoring me? And I don't know if Toni remembers this, but she was like, I swore I would never mentor anyone else again, but I think you'll be great. And yes.

And she said, yes. And I was so excited. And that's kind of how our relationship started. Toni, what do you remember of that meeting or not? Yeah. my version of it is similar, slightly different in parts, but, I, know, like you said, we, we do get a lot of calls, people asking to pick our brain about real estate and, I really enjoy those. I kind of, find it kind of fascinating.

who's drawn to real estate and why, what do they want to talk about? What do they think they bring to the table that's going to stand out? And so I'm always happy to give my time to young people or not so young people who are considering going into the business. And over the years, as I've met with several people, what I found is it's like the key piece to successful realtors tends to be around what I call having a sticky personality. Like you need to be someone that like, I know that if Kim went into

insurance or politics or whatever, she would take this level of tenacity and intelligence into it and enthusiasm that I'd probably follow her anywhere. And that is the kind of thing where I think in real estate is like, you can be technically good at this job and fail. It's a restaurant with good lighting can have marginal food. But if you don't have the good lighting, can't be taught kind of thing. And I think that's the thing is your

Rebecca Green (04:45.408)
ability to attract people and encourage trust in relationship is such a key piece to your ability to succeed in this business because it really is, I'm an efficiency nut and it's really how efficiently can you create a trusting relationship which then can lead to good business decisions and mentoring because you're eventually just becoming a mentor to clients. And so it's like how good of a coach can you be and how can you inspire

relationship. So, so I met several people over the years who I kind of dissuaded from going into real estate or, that would be the kids. you know, or said, Hey, maybe look at taking a role is like on a team. Maybe you'd your place, that sort of thing. Like it's not, there's a place for everyone and there's a different job in this for a lot of you.

personality types. But what I loved was when Kim said, is my approach. Like I'm talking, I've got a big nut to cover. I can't make this leap and fail. So I'm asking all of these top realtors in town, what makes you successful? Like, what did you do? And I was so excited by that approach. And I've told this story to a lot of other people going into real estate. I'm like, go do this. But when she said this, I was

tell me what he said and tell me what she said. Like, I want to know what was behind the curtain of these people that were, you know, like quote unquote, my competitors, but also, you know, I don't get to have that conversation with them sometimes, or you only see it from the way that you did it and you're, you don't always have confidence in that anyway. So that was exciting to me that she had the boldness to approach it that way. And it was very smart.

And it is true. What I think our story differs is I remember thinking like, yeah, I'll never train anyone again. It takes too long. It's too much of an investment. But I was like, I really like her. And what I remember is actually reaching out to her and being like, I like you. But anyway, was it was kind of kismet. And and I remember being a little bit of a slow time in the market. So it was like investing in something totally different than my business.

Rebecca Green (07:06.206)
and being excited about it and watching and knowing that she would take off. And it was just sort of like how it would play out, how she would bloom. I love that. And one thing I would tap in with is, you saying how Kim approached all of these top producing agents and asked them what made them successful. One of the things I say so frequently is there are a million different ways to succeed in this industry. And that's so fascinating. And, you know, when

the agents that I mentor, I'm constantly telling them that what works for one person will inevitably not work for another person, right? There are core strengths and core components that all good real estate agents, I believe, share. You called it a sticky personality.

And that's such a great way of putting it, right? But at the end of the day, you have to find what is authentic to you in order to hit those milestones and succeed. so seeking out what other people are doing and listening to that, what a great approach, Kim. I think that's fantastic. Yeah. I love it. That's why I still, when I meet young people now, I'm like, go do this. Because it is such a big leap to go into real estate and not get a paycheck.

And I get nervous for people like, I don't know if you should try this. Like you need more info. in TV shows are not info about real estate. But you know, I had a great mentor too. So like for me, it was also Pat. was giving back in the way that the person who gave me everything. Toni, can you tell us about your story and kind of your background? Yeah. We'll say, and I'd love to know about your mentor. Yeah. It's, it's, it's a weird one a little bit.

But so my parents are realtors, which is, that's pretty good for people. And my mom is actually still licensed. She's been licensed for almost 50 years. Wow. No, I know. And my stepdad, well, my real dad sold real estate for a while. My stepdad sold real estate for a long time with her, my brothers now in real estate. it's one of those things. My aunt, big realtor.

Rebecca Green (09:21.358)
So therefore I did not want to do real estate. I grew up in the office. The bottom left drawer of my mom's desk was my toys and I sat there and I entertained myself. I remember being like seven years old and I was the only one who knew how to change the toner and the copy machine. I would get up there and pull out the big long tube. my God, I love

I had a flyer business called Flyers with Flare. Back then it was clip art, you know, and then you would like glue photographs on that you printed. So anyway, so I grew up around it, therefore wanted to do something totally different and went into accounting and thought I was going to be a college professor. Long story short, things didn't really go as planned and I ended up not finishing my college

and working in restaurants and then kind of got to the top of the restaurant world pretty quickly and had nowhere to go and didn't have enough money to open a restaurant. So that was not going to happen. And then I was also a belly dancing student, our teacher. And one of my students was a realtor and she was great. And she and I were good friends and she kept saying, come work for my real estate company. And I was like, no, no, no. Like that's not now what I

And, but the part where I think it worked out pretty magically was that after resisting their request for me to come work for them, because I had had my license with my parents briefly. I knew what it was. I only did that for money for a vacation. Like it was very intentional. And my mom's really competitive like me. So she really didn't train me that much as much as use me as a, you know, a servant.

And so when I resisted their request to go work for them, that she said, well, we also need a bookkeeper. And I had been a bookkeeper for my parents since I was little, and I'd been a bookkeeper for other businesses. And so I had seen what good, successful realtors books looked like. And I had seen what businesses who are not very ethical, what their books looked like. Like I learned that you could read into people's intelligence, business savvy.

Rebecca Green (11:47.338)
and ethics into the way they do their bookkeeping. So true. And so when I went to do this little hippie real estate company's books in the middle of the night after my two restaurant jobs, my mind was blown that these people were doing business like I had never seen as far as just sheer numbers. But also they were just their books were just pristine and smart. And I was just I looked at them and I said,

you're doing this? Are you kidding me? People trust you this much. And they were just kind of like, just do the right thing. And so they then they kept being like, please come, we really need help. We have more leads than we can service. And so I really very reluctantly brought my license over. Luckily back then I could just collect the test in Oregon. So I brought it from Washington to Oregon without much work.

They send me out on day one and said, here's a client go show her houses. And I remember at the end of the day, she was like, yeah, I really like this one. I think I'd like to put an offer in. And I remember just going over to the corner and grabbing a phone and being like, I need someone to show up. I didn't know how to fill it out. I had never done anything in order. So, yeah, that's awesome. But then, yeah. So,

Nora Isaacson was the owner of that company and she was such a wonderful mentor to me. mean, she was smart about SEO stuff before anybody knew it that well. So we had leads coming in like no one would imagine. Like I estimated that in the four years I worked there that I met with 1200 buyers. Unbelievable. From, yeah, I mean we just,

So what year was this? What year was this? This was like 2004 ish. Yeah. That was near and dear to my heart for sure. But I know a lot of agents like, whoop, not even, know, so 2004 I'm so impressed. Yeah. People barely had websites and we were bringing in leads like, and they weren't, they weren't

Rebecca Green (14:11.182)
shopping for realtors. They were only coming to meet us. So even though I was only 23 or so, I, which it kind of blew my mind that these adults were trusting me. But by the time you meet with 1200 people, you know what you're talking about. Like I can win any interview because I've had, it's the 10 ,000 hours thing and it was given to me by someone else. So that was like, I very much attribute.

my success to Nora and all of her systems and her training and her support in like those, you know, we all have gone through the difficult client stuff or not knowing what to do. I just remember going to her and I'm sure in tears often and saying, I don't know what to do about the situation. And she said, well, it sounds like maybe it would be better off or she said, what do you think is best for the client was always what's best. And I said, they shouldn't buy this house. And she

go tell them not to buy the house. She was so enthusiastic about like, go tell them not to buy the house. Like that was, it was just do right by people. The whole thing will take care of itself. And to have your boss tell you that over and over and over and never worry about numbers. That was my, that set me up for the rest of my life. Amazing. You mentioned something about the 1200 buyers and you know, it's doing the

You're literally doing the reps and the repetition, I'm constantly telling agents again that I mentor, repetition builds such amazing competency as well as confidence. 100%. Right? Yeah. And so like you're saying, just having that exposure gave you the tools to win business probably for the rest of your

Right. Like I've never marketed because I have such a big sphere from that time. So I mean, I just, yeah. But you know, so I think back and I was like, well, what could you teach someone from that? Cause part of it was a gift that I can't recreate for someone is that, you know, that sphere. Right. Remember when I look back, what I did was I paid for the training.

Rebecca Green (16:35.116)
And the way I paid for the training was by having a split. It wasn't great, but what I got out of it was clients, support and, know, and training and all the things. it's like, I paid for my, I, was like the college of my career. And so now I'm just like, people should be taking whatever, whatever referral fee or whatever to have those experiences and build those relationships.

because you're going to pay for it with the front and then it's going to feed you for the rest of your life. it's so smart. So true. Yeah. So that is something actually so that Toni, Toni, what she learned from Nora again, do right by people that, that is the number one. I I learned a lot from Toni, but that absolutely is the number one lesson. And now I've gone on to mentor a handful of agents and that is the number one lesson that I've passed on to is do what's best for the

do what's best for the client. That's like the golden rule. Like anyone who's like, it's like, that's what Kim's going to say, you know, because I was like, was like, yeah, cause that's what Toni taught me. Toni tell us about, so you were recognized 30 under 30 by NAR. And for those who don't know, can you kind of share what that, what that recognition is and a little bit about that experience? Yeah. So NAR started giving out the 30 under 30 award in

Um, so I was one of the early winners. So it went in 2003. So during that big burst at, um, Portland's alternative realtors, which is where I worked, I kind of joke with the younger people now that like, I don't think I could win today. Like there are, think a lot fewer people that submitted applications because back then in 2003, I remember having a friend take some photographs of me that I printed and stuck in an envelope with a, you

with an essay that I wrote about doing my diet and now they do like full movies and stuff. I say this about my college too. I was like, I could never get into the college that I got into like now. Like, I don't know how I got it. It takes a lot of ramp up. Right. And so but it was, you know, feel super fortunate mainly because I mean, I don't know how much

Rebecca Green (18:56.472)
the consumer cares about me winning that award or anybody even talks about it anymore, because it's been a long time ago. But being in a community with the best of the best in the country, and thankfully NAR has really fostered time together and they have retreats for us. And these have become some of the most impactful people in my life, because they're doing real estate at a level that

You're so inspired. And the beautiful thing, too, is when you get to the best of the best of the best in this country, these people are so humble. They are they are they're just challenging each other to give more to charity. Like I was so worried about like slick suits and sports cars. And it was so much more it was so much more loving and kind. it's because like you can do really great real estate and be kind of a jerk, but to be really good.

and really successful, you have to be a really beautiful human. And it's just great to see that. I love that. And that Taps and Kim and I talk a lot about putting yourself in the right rooms and the importance of learning from other people. And it sounds like that group of, you know, high performing individuals was also a great source of learning for you. think that's absolutely. I call them my prisoner war friends because they're like with when you're when you meet a top real turds like, no, no, I know.

I know what you've been through and you know what I've been through. And that's something that like our spouses can barely give support on because it's like, Oh no, you don't know what I have to deal with today. But they do. And so one of the ways that I give back now is that I travel the country and I, um, meet with those, the 30 under thirties, you know, not the always the youngest ones, but sort of the mid career ones and, encourage them to

relationship with each other and to lean into the group. just because I realized that if you're going to be really successful in real estate, you will face a lot of hardship. And then it's a matter of whether you can survive those parts of it and how long can you make the good of what you built last. so having community and realizing that it is just part of it and then, just creating a space where people will talk about what's difficult to get through it together is something I really enjoy.

Rebecca Green (21:20.722)
so smart. That's so valuable. That's amazing. I didn't realize that there was a long standing, you know, group relationship in that NAR group. mean, amazing for you to spend the time mentoring some of the agents in that sphere that are younger than you. That's great. There just came a day where I was like, this is I'm going to double down on these relationships. Like this is not only good for my soul, it's good for business.

And I was hearing from some of them, like their organizational systems and creating referral networks. They were making, they had huge side incomes from referrals. And I went into it like, just kind of want to hang out with these people and I want to have friends and I want to help younger people get going or push through their kind of blind spots and whatnot. But the beautiful thing is, is now like I travel.

A good chunk of the year I have a pretty good travel budget set aside just for doing this sort of outreach. now, like a years ago, I think I got paid back triple the cost of the travel and referral fees. So it's like I'm getting paid to go spend time with people that I care about and help them build their business. like, and how it flows back is way more than it costs. It's a true testament to the business really being a relationship business. At the end of the day, it's a relationship business.

And I always say to at the end of the day, it's about talking to people about buying and selling real estate. Yeah. Yeah. Right. This is your bottom line. Yeah. Yeah. You're doing it all over the country. I love it. Toni, can you share again? I know this, but like, what does your business look like today? You know, I, we just have a different seasons of the business. Like what, is, yeah. Yeah. Your business looks like now, you know, like I said before, I'm sort of an efficiency net. And so I think a lot

what I wanna do with my time and what's really effective and even kind of fighting for what I do and don't wanna do. I think that the nuts and bolts of real estate is not terribly interesting per se. mean, like filling out the contract does not inspire anyone.

Rebecca Green (23:39.374)
you know, tracking the timeline is not inspiring, which is why a lot of people hire transaction coordinators, cause that's not the fun part. but making those things as easy as possible so that then I can be like, well, what do you like doing? What is really effective for your business? And because I, I really feel like agents spend so much of their career trying to fill time and feel like they're investing in their business that by the time they

have enough, have a big enough clientele group that they're going to be fine. They never shift out of busy work. And so there's still putting balloons on the open house sign. And I like to think, well, if my best deal, let's say I have, I get a million dollar client in roles and we communicate fabulously, everything's super smooth. I probably make a thousand dollars an hour. So that's like, that's my, that's a good

And if you start looking at your time as value, it's like, well, then if I had to pay my assistant, let's say even $500, would I have them do an open house? No, absolutely. But it's like, you think that you have the, your time is free. And when you stop looking at your time is because it's not free. You didn't spend it with your family. You didn't spend it doing something you wanted. I call it a transfer of

A transfer of time. you're spending your time on today or right now at this minute, you have to be okay not spending it elsewhere. Right? So it's the transfer of time always evaluating. Yeah. The trade off. And funny, you talked about the busy work. You know, I often refer to it as real estate agents tend to disguise inefficiency as service. That's a beautiful way of putting it. I totally agree. It's not service.

It's not service, right? And understanding your ROI on every hour that you spend doing something is also something that I don't think that agents really evaluate. Right. No, because they were so worried they would never have another deal. So if I keep running, then that I'm doing something towards the next deal. then, but hopefully after three or four seasons of your career where it ebbs and flows, you're like, it'll it's coming. It'll come

Rebecca Green (26:05.742)
I don't need to run in circles right now. so, you know, I don't think there's much fast tracking of that. That's just going to take five and 10 years of like panic and, you know, all sorts of things. But then hopefully you do have a good mentor that where you're like, stop doing that. Like stop, you know, stop spending your whole weekend away from your family doing open houses. Cause like how often did that

ever sell our house or even if let's say you got buyers, maybe you're chatting, you're cute like Kim and people talk to you and they trust you. But is that a good client? Is that like your type of people? Like that's a person who didn't value realtors enough beyond meeting you at a thing that you open the door at. They're like, you're good enough. That's not an idea. That's a good way to look at that. So it's like, so as far as like one of the ways I try to make my business

efficient and enjoyable was because I thought, you know, if I worked with a whole bunch of people, let's say I have 10 clients at a time. If I have one jerk, he ruins everything for everyone. All my time is caught up in this one person. So it was like, okay, I can't 100 % control not working with jerks because a lot of times they're nice when you meet them and then it's a shift during the thing. you're like, shoot.

However, I can shift the odds by not working with strangers from open houses. I can shift the odds by investing in the relationships of the clients I care about. And one thing I'm learning now is stop investing in the people you don't like. Like, cause I tend to do the same thing for everyone because I think it's the nice thing to do, but I don't really want the referrals from those people. They weren't nice people to me during the transaction. Why would I spend time, money and energy

encouraging relationships with their friends. Like, so I think I like, I try and focus on that. And I think about I angle what marketing I do or what I invest in as far as any sort of outreach to speak to my best client. Like, who's the one I like the most? Who's the one I'd want my life anyway? Who's the one where if we look for a year and the end, they're like, I'm going to move to Boise and hang

Rebecca Green (28:23.512)
you know, what's with our friends that you're like, okay, you know, I love you. I wish you the best. I didn't hate the year that I spent with you. And so, so like, I thought, well, I architects and designers. Like these are some of my top clients. And so then it was like, how can I speak to them with my marketing instead of trying to speak to everybody and just hope for the biggest windfall back. So I think just being intentional.

and trusting that you actually have something of value and so you can direct it instead of just being like, I'm going to mass mail everyone in the whole world, you know, because I'm terrified, you So I think that and then, you know, I do, travel about 40 % of the year. And some of it's just for me. Some of it's to me realtors, but, you know, you want to be the person that you want to hang out

And so for, I think a lot of clients are attracted to the life that I lead or what I'm excited about. And that's something we have in common. So continuing to lead an inspired life, I think builds your business. Yeah, that's beautiful. That's beautiful. Don't you also find that the clients who are really difficult and you don't connect with, not only, I mean, they, they, they, bring a different energy to the other clients because of

And that's really hard. People don't realize how taxing real estate is emotionally and physically on agents. You know, we deal with some really, you know, divorce, death, illness, you know, I mean, those things we're showing up for our clients and I always want to listen. I always want to be there to support those things. It's emotionally hard. You know, there are hard situations we find ourselves

And so, you know, I always look at it like I want to bring my best to those people in need. And when you have those clients that are just you're not in alignment with. Yeah, toxic. You don't have the right energy for the ones that, you know, you want to give to. I'm a big proponent in saying no, you know, to certain situations or certain clients or certain deals. So I love that point that you made. And one thing I'm trying to get better about now is that when I

Rebecca Green (30:46.56)
I think up until this point, and I'm trying to ship this when I do have a client, he becomes problematic. What my behavior thus far has been is to see it as a challenge to find the best way to serve them. But what I'm realizing in retrospect is what you say, what I bring to it. Well, what I'm bringing to them is not my best work. Right. I'm like, even though I'm seeing it as a challenge, I realize like I'm trying to make a workaround for myself.

Not necessarily be the best agent for them. And it was like, and I realized by sort of firing people later than I should have, I made the relationship worse. Where one of the best things I could have done was to call it out like right when it went sideways. And you know, and they could take it however they're going to take it. But I just I'm like, you know, I'm not serving these people. This is a little challenge I've created for myself is not helping them have the best experience. I should be saying,

you need to find someone else who's more aligned with you because there are different kinds of realtors with different kinds of gifts out there and there's a better person for you. So I mean, I just have to make that call unilaterally. That's great. Totally. Toni's so you, again, this be interesting. So tell us that you own your own brokerage. I don't think you have a team. So Toni, I said, I'd be curious to your philosophy on teams and why you own your own brokerage.

What's that like? So I've worked for big brokerages and a few small ones. And this is the second one that I have been an owner of. And so it's kind of good. think I've seen the gamut of how different businesses run. after I left Portland's Alternative Realtors, which is an incredibly efficient, small, teen -style business,

And then I went to a big company with a good reputation in Portland. And it really was a lumbering elephant in comparison as far as how the systems worked and like what you got for the money. And I was like, wow, this is really, this is a waste of time. This is taking me away from, from what I do well. And thankfully I'd had a model of how to run a really efficient business. So I wasn't afraid of doing it because I'd done

Rebecca Green (33:09.81)
And I'd seen like audits from the state that said you're doing a great job. And I'm like, OK, you can do it this way and it works. And then I think I've done a lot of the different variations of like I've had Iyer's agents who wrote offers and then I took it to close and I've had when Kim was working with me, I just did my own thing. And then the the brokers that worked that I supervised did their own thing for the most part. So.

And I've had assistance, I've had like multiple assistants. And I think it was just that in the end, I know I'm kind of a lone wolf and a bit of a control freak, but also that the client wants their person. And I found that the client was happier when I did it. And for me, it was like, well, if I have to check your work, it was already done.

Like that's not adding a benefit to me is to have another person who does something that then I have to look over I'm responsible for because that to me is inefficient. And so thankfully I come from a real checks and balances paperwork system. So I have fallbacks so that because I'm not perfect. So I have to have as streamlined and consistent of a system so that I don't make mistakes because it is on me. And that I will say is right of.

of owning your own brokerage is that, is that there is more risk involved. did Gressview now, or do you have anyone that you? Yeah, so I had a handful of agents up until 2016. It was the 10 year anniversary that I had just sort of a mental shift around it because I realized that I think having people that worked for my company was flattering, but not efficient or financially beneficial.

The way we do brokerage and what people pay to work for broker here is very different than in different parts of the country, which I know through my 30 to 30 funding. This is not a profitable place to own a real estate company. It's not. mean, you have like, it more profitable elsewhere? Oh, yeah. Why is that? don't know. don't doubt different marketing. Like Toni, I'm not sure if you know, I ran the marketing and business development.

Rebecca Green (35:30.574)
for the Sotheby's franchise in Oregon. I helped open up the offices here, came from central Oregon to the Portland market. When I dove into the commission structures at other companies and started doing the kind of the investigative work about how we were gonna package that on the Portland side, I was totally blown away by, yeah, totally blown away. had also started my career in Florida.

and worked in Florida as well as in Vermont. And so I had some experience in other states. then also in the, even the Central Oregon market was different. yeah, brokers here, while there are some structures where the fees are, you know, when you're working for a larger brand and there are franchise fees that never go away.

Right. That's on the expensive side in this market. But in general, know, the caps in general, caps do not exist in many, many other markets. Portland is not a profitable place to run a brokerage with for sure. Right. I think you can do a small, a real small team that you have a lot of control over your high producing.

Or you can do or it's like you need to be over like 60 or 80 people to make it work But I would I run into realtors and a lot of other markets that they pay six figures over six figures Yearly to their yeah, there's no cap. I've been there Yeah, I've been there with paying six figures and you know, you have to be super strategic here If you know, I think the small team you're absolutely right, you know a small team You know, which is what I've typically done has been hugely profitable

But it is hard. It's hard. It's hard. then It's very hard because the amount of time it takes to train, which is where I hesitated training again, and then keeping those people. And so there's a handful of teams in Portland that have stayed together for a long time. And I've always been curious what the structure is that kept them there. But I didn't have that kind of luck with having people stay generally once I trained them.

Rebecca Green (37:50.058)
after seeing that kind of a few rounds and then being like, well, of course they want to go do it. And I, I did gravitate towards people who were independent and could, you know, and so, you know, and knowing that it was always back on me is a bit, much time do you want to spend in your career training and mentoring versus I do like my clients? Like, I don't mind selling real estate. So I think it's just a matter of identifying what you want to do. And I think again, like you said, there's a place in a style for everyone.

And this has just after much trial and error, it was definitely not a straight line. I'm super happy working alone. Great. It was great. you know, the pandemic and technology has made that a lot easier than it was just from like. So curious, you have any, do you have any administrative help or do you have any? No, just really completely on your own. yeah, no, no.

Yeah. I mean, I always say like, like, if I'm grumpy about my job, I'm like, all you do is hole punch and talk about things you know. So stop complaining. Yeah. I say, and there's so many, again, one of the things about Toni that I learned, so well, I'm so grateful that literally from a contracts perspective, from a process, Toni was such a stickler about the details.

in training and again in her business and in training me that I find that invaluable. So when I show up to hats and they were so impressed. So I worked with Toni for about two years and then I decided that I wanted to just a bigger fishbowl to learn from other people and they were so impressed about my paperwork and how I handled things. And then again, I've gone on to train people, but it's because Toni was such a stick like if I miss one thing or one detail

She was, she was not messing around. I was very love it. was incredible. Very unique for ages. had an assistant who honestly drilled me on every decision I made in paperwork. Um, so she, she trained me. She never showed a house that one, like he'd be like, why? I don't know. I don't know that from your paperwork. That that's not clear. What if we went to court? have that now. Yeah, I've had that for 12 years. I've had

Rebecca Green (40:12.396)
I mean, we all can't be good at everything, right? And contracts are so important to me as well. But I love having that second set of eyes, the eagle eyes to add. also, like you said, why did you do that? Why did you write it like that? It's amazing. Yeah, it's amazing to have those counterparts. If you're in wrapping up. Yeah. In wrapping up, Toni, I think one last question that that we'd love to know, what would you what would you tell an agent?

right, that is new in the business or struggling right now in the business, you know, where should they start? Where should they start to reinvigorate, you know, and kickstart their business? What's the one best piece of advice? I don't think there's any way around that I would recommend someone not start on a team or as an assistant. Like you cannot, you are dangerous to the public on your own. have no idea what you're doing.

And I was like, it doesn't even matter if you don't like the person. Like you don't need to be with the person who's like your future, you like everything that they do is amazing. Watching someone who does the business will tell you whether it's worth investing your time to be do it. And you might just sit there and learn all about all the ways you would do it differently. But if you are not around someone doing real estate all the time, you are not learning anything and trying to.

to just go out and make it up on your own. mean, it's, it's ludicrous in my opinion. You need to go pay for your training. And if that's working hourly, if that's working, you know, if that's being forced to cold call, whatever it is, get to actually do real estate. And then you can decide if you want to keep doing it, but otherwise you're just dressing up and calling signs around him. That's not it. Amazing. I will say

It's also says, it's gonna get as many at bats as you can as quickly as you can. That's what you need. And I knew the, I know Rebecca said last question, but I have another question. Tell me what, what, what are your thoughts on the market? Yes. Funny people obviously ask me this a lot. And I'm always like, same thing at different day. Doesn't matter. Like we don't care what the market is. We adjust

Rebecca Green (42:31.544)
to solve problems. So I don't, it goes up, it goes down. It's fine. I'm making less because there's less, you know, it doesn't matter. Like I can't make, I can't lean in and do something different. That's going to change market conditions. it's just like, just pay attention. And when you know that it goes up and down, then you're ready for both. So, you know, day to day, just keep doing the same things.

Okay. You're so fascinating to talk to. And I know I said last question and then you were like, I have one more. I have one more. What about this NAR business and the buyer agency and commission? What's your quick take on that? Quick take. I'm kind of excited. like, I like, with dustups in things. I like to see what's going to shake out of this. I really don't think anything's hardly going to change. think my, my thought is

big business, big real estate money, the people who have the most invested with the most expensive attorneys will come up with a solution that allows the machine to keep going. And we will follow their lead because their businesses are the biggest. So I really think it's gonna turn out to look a lot the same or behave a lot the same as what we're used to. I am a supporter of NIR. I know that people aren't super thrilled with some things that have happened, but humans are human. And I think the big thing people are forgetting

Without NAR, we have no code of ethics. And I don't think you can imagine what our business looks like without that. The state does not manage much in regards to good and bad behavior. And that's where we have our backbone of that people need to behave and be good to each other and not lie and not discriminate and things like that. So I think it's, you know, even if we did away with something like NAR, we would have to replace it with some other trade organization that creates that porous, because that's to me, that's

That's the wild. That's it. I could talk to you all day. That's good. Actually, I have one other thought I want to ask. So can I think Toni answer this? So I find many things about fascinating that Toni, you're kind of anonymous online a little bit. Like if you like Toni Mikel, who is that like people, but you can't really find much about you on the internet, which is very unusual for a real estate agent. What is your philosophy about that?

Rebecca Green (44:49.226)
I always joke that I'm like a velvet rope realtor. Like you have to know someone to get my phone number. But part of it is like, I don't want strangers to call me. I've never paid for a lead. I think I'm most inspired by realtors who are really good at staying in their lane and just being so comfortable. And you know, the internet wasn't as much of a thing, I think, when I was new. And also, I didn't want anybody to know I was a realtor. Like that was kind

That was not my future that I saw for myself. And so it was just something that I could do in the background really well and live a life of what I, who I wanted to be. And then people like, you know, she's a realtor. I'm like, shh. It's going to ruin my reputation. anyway, I just, I think I just, I came up at a different time with a different mindset and,

Yeah. I mean, I love, I love what I do and I'm really grateful for how it's all worked out. but, but it's also fun to do it. And I'm not good. I'm not, I don't make videos or reels and I've never tweeted. don't, I mean, here's what, here's what my point is. Toni is so good. Toni is you just, I mean, I have this conversation a lot. Again, we can talk about buyer consults you come with this presentation, you know,

Toni shows up to her buyer consult with a white piece of paper and a clipboard and her business card. And she asked good questions and she listens a lot. And then when she speaks, it's really smart. And you're like, wow, okay. Like she is an advisor. Like she has such a wealth of knowledge and that people are so fortunate to get to work with her regardless if she has a fancy website or not. So, so I make the argument, I go and she works at a

no name company that she ride, we felt bluebird real estate, you know, I was like, but she's a boss. And I personally love that she is kind of anonymous. Because she's like this, the stealth strength that if you are in front of her, you feel and you know, and she's, she's different than most people, which makes her special. And I know her phone just rings. mean, her marketing plan. I mean, Toni, correct me if I'm wrong, you send

Rebecca Green (47:10.996)
every quarter, a really beautiful, a nice paper, an artist, a picture of an artist with a little story about the artists and your name. mean, her marketing thing is like super unique and it's just an easy way to stay in front of people. I mean, is that your marketing plan? Probably Toni, right? That's pretty much all I do. You know, I figure nobody really wants to talk about real estate that much. Right. So it's like, I'm like, what would I want to get the mail? And definitely not a postcard that talks about interest rates. Like, I don't know, you

I don't care. And my joke always is when realtors send out just sold, which not to knock the practice, but I'm like, if you got a postcard from your plumber that said that they were celebrating that they fixed a leak, you would be like, whoa, I thought that was a minimum standard. Like, why are you celebrating? You were excited that you sold a house? That makes me concerned. Like, that is not something that requires a postcard. That should be dated. Yeah. I love

Love it. I just I think draws say that what I wanted to be for my clients was I think about like what I want in my life is when I have a problem is I want a big brother to show up and be like I got that's not a solution I don't even need to explain it to you, but I care about you I will do the best thing for you It'll be it will be done and I'm like and that's what I try to be for my clients is and that's when I do my best work is when they're like We trust you take care of it. I'm like awesome. I have all these skills

Like I can solve this problem for you. And then we get this relationship in exchange. Totally. And even for me, like I have so many realtor relationships. If I have a problem that I don't know, which, you know, again, at this point, like there's not a lot of problems, but Toni's who I call because I was like, I'll ask Toni, she'll know if anyone like I value their opinion, their judgment and that they may come across this who do whose advice do I want? It's

Well, I you don't like people having your phone number and strangers having your phone number. And this is the first time that we've met actually, even though we work in the same market, I've not had the pleasure of doing a deal with you, which is crazy. But I definitely like your phone number because I your calls too. You are definitely smart and you have run this amazing business. I love your philosophy. We're so grateful that you took the time to join us on our new podcast.

Rebecca Green (49:37.106)
thank you so much. Is there anything you'd like to share as we close up? I just want to thank you ladies for, all of your kind words and for sharing this time with me. I mean, it's a real treat for me too. This is not my usual. I know, but I have Toni's hype girl. was like, everybody should, I mean, I thought people like, heard of her, but I don't know her. said, yeah, you're lucky if you know her because she's super special.

She's introverted. I love it. I love it. Well, ladies, thank you so much. Thanks, everyone, for listening. This is How to Real Estate Today. We'll be with you again next week. I can't promise it as interesting and as great of a guest as Toni's been, but we'll see what we can do about that. Thank you. Thanks.